चर्चा:बेळगांव

Untitled

The information in the simaprashn article is true. May be we can change the language a bit.

disputed info

The information in the सीमाप्रश्न section are assertions, at best. When looked at from the other side of the coin, i.e., from the POV of a कानडी person living in Belgaon, this section is not only untrue, it is inflammatory information not backed up by any concrete facts.

Pls note that we (wikipedia users) have not removed the information, just marked it controversial. Just as there is nothing that stops anyone from posting this information, no one can stop a kannadiga from coming in and removing that section, and adding anti-marathi information.

Rather than get into a slanging match, it is best to leave the information as is and mark it disputed/controversial, using the best judgement that we (again, wikipedia users, not admins) can exercise.

क.लो.अ.

अभय नातू 11:22, 16 जानेवारी 2006 (UTC)

---

I am the main contributor of the article. I personally have no problem in MARKING the article as a controversial one. I have plan to change the language a bit and add more specific details. I have fairly good knowledge about the situation in Belgaum and I welcome the discussion on the topic. Frankly speaking, most of the native and earlier migrated Kannada persons also undertand the situation and can be judged from the fluency with which they speak Marathi. Karnataka govt, recently migrated and people around Dharwad and Hubli may not accept it openly. But this is how most of the things work. For India Gadhiji is the Rashtrapita, for the world he is a great leader but for Pakistan he is just a "Hindu Leader".

Regards..

Gopal

Point Of View

Gopal,

You hit the nail RIGHT on the head. One man's terrorist is another man's freedom-fighter. Who are WE to judge who's who?

Keeping that in mind and the fact that Wikipedia must *only* contain factual information, we should keep what can be verified (पुराव्यानिशी शाबित करतायेण्याजोगा मजकूर, to paraphrase पु.ल.देशपांडे) on these pages.

To continue my argument (not just in this context, rather in the larger context of impartiality on wikipedia,) how would it be received by the Marathi community if a Gujju (with an excellent command of Marathi, as it happens) comes in and writes that Mumbai, Jalgaon, Dhule/Nandurbar belong to Gujarat and that the Central govt has turned a blind eye towards the continuing Maha Gujarat Andolan??? :-) A similar case can be made for Nagpur/Vidarbha, Latur/Umaraga, etc. Let's put the verifiable facts (and links to further reading) here and let the readers do their own research. Our prejudices (and I have some myself) do not belong here.

Please continue your excellent contributions to Wikipedia.

अभय नातू 16:34, 18 जानेवारी 2006 (UTC)

Clarification

Abhay and others,

I am trying to convey a different point here. People don't care, what Pakistan thinks about Gandhiji, because everyone knows he was a great leader and not just a "Hindu leader". The articles in Pudhari (Link is given on the left side on www.pudhari.com under चर्चेचे विषय) can be read for any verification for the belgaum strucle. I have already told I am planning to change the language and add more specific details (the articles in Pudhari are quite lengthy, so i am not sure when am I going to do that).

Now to talk about comparing Belgaum strugle with Mumbai/Nadurbar/Nagpur/Latur etc... I have not heard any single person (no question of any MLA) demanding any part of the Maharashtrar to be included in any other state. Having majority of Gujju people in Ghatkopar, Andheri, and South Mumbai does not provide a valid reason to demand merger of Mumbai in Gujarat. These few areas are sarounded by Dadar, Parel, Mulund, Thane, Dombivali etc where we see clear majority of marathi people. It is the fact that BMC (Mumbai Mahanagar Palika) has been ruled by Shivsena over and over which was created to unite only marathi people. No one is demanding Badoda, Indore, and Gwalior to be merged in Maharashtra. Similarly there is no valid ( and supported by people) reasons to demand any of the areas you mentioned (Nadurbar/Latur..) in any state. Few people in Vidharbha are demanding seperate state, but they have a different reason. And I am not sure what percentage of people ACTUALLY want it. There is some Kannadda people dominant part near Solapur, but those people are happy to be a part of Maharashtra.

Belgaum strugle can not be compared even with Kashmir. Because Federal govt has right to mark/devide the internal boundaries of the country. And the Govt. of India has a policy to create language based states. This is the reason we see many small states in NE. People of Goa were asked if they want to be a part of Maharashtra or not. So the people of Belgaum have right to get the govt of their own language. Belgaum was just like any other city in South Maharashtra. Kolhapur is the best comparison. Belgaum was also a part of then Bombay state, and then in 1956 suddenly merged into Karnataka.. Why??? Nobody knows... Since then people are fighting against Karnataka govt. democratically. Getting elected 7 MLS of MES (maharashtr ekikaran samiti) just to demand the merger is not a simple thing. At least 3-4 MLA always get elected for last 50 years. Belgaum Municipal Corporation is always ruled my Marathi people. People's feeling is so strong that they don't care about the capability of the person they are electing. They just vote for the person who promise to fight for Marathi. Dozens of people have died in the struggle. Nobody does this all for fun.. Mhanataat naa.. "Jyaachee jalate, tyaalaach kalate".. aapan kaay phakt opinion denar...

So to conclude, let the article be there and lets see what others think.. I don't have problem if anybody wants to change the language/tone and add more details, which anyway I am planning to do at some point.

Gopal

---

Gopal,

Following is an answer to some of the points you raised. It is NOT a pesonal attack or casting aspersions on your honest and integrity...if it seems so, I apologize in advance.

People don't care, what Pakistan thinks about what Gandhiji, because he was a great leader and not just a "Hindu leader".

Well, that's your belief...Do you KNOW for sure that they do not care? What about the rest of the world? Not everyone thinks he was a great leader. In fact, there have been enough books and articles in that regard. Believe me, it exists. I have read some of that bull<beep> That's not the point I'm trying to convey. Regardless of what the prevalent thought is, facts must be represented when they are verifiable. We are not writing for the 30 million Marathi natives. And we are NOT pandering to what they think. We're trying to create a reference that's as impartial as it is truthful.

The articles in Pudhari (Link is given on the left side on www.pudhari.com under चर्चेचे विषय) can be read for any verification for the belgaum strucle. I have already told I am planning to change the language and add more specific details (the articles in Pudhari are quite lengthy, so i am not sure when am I going to do that).

And that is the RIGHT way to go. Add links to wikipedia articles so curious minds can go read further. Stating one point-of-view (Marathi) and excluding another (Kannad) does not behoove Wikipedia.

Now to talk about comparing Belgaum strugle with Mumbai/Nadurbar/Nagpur/Latur etc... I have not heard any single person (no question of any MLA) demanding any part of the Maharashtrar to be included in any other

There...you may not have heard about it, but I have. I grew up in Gujarat and this was a simmering, if not a burning topic. If you have been to Nagpur, the Swatantra Vidarbha movement is not exactly dead. Mumbai for Gujarat or as a UT has been a long-standing issue brought up by the Gujjus and North Indians that seem to be in majority there.

state. Having majority of Gujju people in Ghatkopar, Andheri, and South Mumbai does not provide a valid reason to demand merger of Mumbai in Gujarat. These few areas are sarounded by Dadar, Parel, Mulund, Thane, Dombivali etc where we see clear majority of marathi people. It is the fact that BMC (Mumbai Mahanagar Palika) has been ruled by Shivsena over and over which was created to unite only marathi people. No one is demanding Badoda, Indore, and Gwalior to be merged in Maharashtra. Similarly there is no valid ( and supported by people) reasons to demand any of the areas you mentioned (Nadurbar/Latur..) in any state. Few people in Vidharbha are demanding seperate state, but they have a different reason. And I not sure what percentage of people ACTUALLY want it. There is some Kannadda people dominant part near Solapur, but those people are happy to be the part of Maharashtra.

The above are all assertions. These are one person's judgement calls. I'm not here to fight about all the areas you mentioned above (although I could :-]) The point I'm trying to make is....represent only facts. If you must provide a point-of-view, privide a counter-balancing point-of-view as well. We are not here to editorialize. We are here to report. BIG difference. In case of Belgaon, I'd say that --

"Inclusion of this area in Karnataka has been under heavy dispute from the marathi speaking population which wants to be part of Maharashtra. This sturggle has been ongoing since the state was formed. Links to this are provided in this article."

No more, no less.

No one can dispute this statement and no one can call it biased. At the same time, it gives the reader an opportunity to explore the issue further and make up his/her own mind.

Belgaum strugle can not be compared even with Kashmir. Because Federal govt has right to mark/devide the internal boundaries of the country. And the Govt. of India has a policy to create language based states. This is the reason we see many small states in NE. People of Goa were asked if they want to be the part of Maharashtra or not. So the people of Belgaum have right to get the govt of their own language. Belgaum was just like any other city in South Maharashtra. Kolhapur is the best comparison. Belgaum was also a part of then Bombay state, and then in 1956 suddenly merged into Karnataka.. Why??? Nobody knows... Since then people are fighting against Karnataka govt. democratically. Getting elected 7 MLS of MES (maharashtr ekikaran samiti) just to demand the merger is not a simple thing. At least 3-4 MLA always get elected for last 50 years. Belgaum Municipal Corporation is always ruled my Marathi people. People's feeling is so strong that they don't care about the capability of the person they are electing. They just vote for the person who promise to fight for Marathi. Dozens of people have died in the struggle. Nobody does this all for fun.. Mhanataat naa.. "Jyaachee jalate, tyaalaach kalate".. aapan kaay phakt opinion denar...

I think that is more editorializing on your part. No offense meant, but that is what it seems to me. Again, let me stress, I am familiar with the Belgaon struggle and I have my own thoughts about it (sympathizing with the Marathi population, naturally) I simply am fighting for those prejudices to NOT appear on a reference site such as wikipedia. As Vijay put it, let's try and be as निरपेक्ष as possible :)

So to conclude, let the article be there and lets see what others think.. I don't have problem if anybody wants to change the language/tone and add more details, which I am planning to do at some point.

Amen. Look forward to this and other very good(may I stress again) contributions from you.

क.लो.अ.

अभय नातू 17:19, 19 जानेवारी 2006 (UTC)

निरपेक्ष आणि सापेक्ष

मुखपृष्ठावर अल्बर्ट आईन्स्टाईन सापेक्षतावादाचा विशेष सिद्धांत बद्दल छान लेख आहे. हे खरे कि प्रत्येक विषय सापेक्ष असतो. बेळगावचा प्रश्न बरोबर आहे. विकीपेडीया हे व्यासपीठ असे आहे कि प्रश्न असल्या बद्दल उल्लेख करता येतो पण प्रश्न मांडता-पुरस्कार-करता येत नाही विजय

debate

There's a yahoo group setup for marathi wikipedians to discuss this and other such topics.

Discussion on the yahoo mailing list will allow us to talk about wikipedia in 'private', away from normal wikipedia users.

I encourage all marathi wikipedia contributors to join mr-wiki yahoo group.

You can do so by visiting http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mr-wiki/

Or by sending an email to mailto:mr-wiki-subscribe@yahoogroups.com

अभय नातू 02:22, 20 जानेवारी 2006 (UTC)

modified verson

Hi everybody..

I understand that we are trying to make wikipedia a impartial reference, although what is partial and what is not is a topic of discussion. I never claimed that the previous version was unbiased. There is no doubt the things i mentioned in the previous verson are true, although, I understand, Wikipedia is not a good place to mention everything. I was trying to make my point clear that Belgaum strugle is not similar to those things few people discuss in Mumbai or Vidharba. My personal experience is that many people in Maharahtra have very little knowledge about the belgaum strugle. I had to do this a couple of times in the past on a yahoo group too. May be next time I will refere this discussion to someone ask me about Simaprahsn :-).. Now I have edited the article, may be later will update it again. Feel free to comment if you have any..

Gopal

hi,

Belgaum was one of the main issues during the Samyukta Maharastra movement, a movement that led to creation of Maharashtra state.

Belgaum City was finally included in Karnataka even though it had a Marathi majority. This was in exchange for Solapur, a district with majority of Kannada speakers that was included in Maharashtra.How can such this take place on the basis of linguistic lines?Iam from south solapur(akkalkot taluka) and speak kannada.I think creation of the state should have been truely on linguistic basis.

I think this article is perfect and not controversial.Logically by the numbers,Belgaum,Karvar and adjoining areas should be included in Maharashtra. Please be frank and not politically correct. Raajiv

Politically Correct

Rajeev,

What's politically correct, or factual for you is not so for someone from Belgaon that believes that region should be part of Karnataka.

Wikipedia is a collection of verfiable facts. At least, it strives to be. No place here for what 'should be' or 'ought to be.'

There are those among us (including admins) that believe just like you do regarding this issue. But we must not let our personal biases get in the way of presenting 'what is', without editorializing in the articles themselves.

Hope you understand the perspective here.

There is a separate article on 'सीमा प्रश्न' that addresses the boundary dispute. You are welcome to contribute more facts to it, including references that you may cite/quote.

अभय नातू 17:13, 21 मे 2006 (UTC)

politicaly correct?

Abhay, Nice to know ur views.Belgaon has clear majority of Maharashtrians and you can see how insecure is(Karntaka govt) by its policies.Recently the mayor of Belgaon was manhandled by an extrimist Kannada organisation to which Maharashtra reacted sharply. Unfortunately the NPOV which u and wiki is trying to exhibit is not followed by ur kannada counterparts.For that plz see Belgaum sections (in english/kannada) and even Maharashtra town like Akkalkot and Solapur.Intrestingly Kosargad which Karnataka claims from Kerala,has its name displayed in Kannada too! Jai Maharashtra Raajiv

Stop making changes without references

Pls do not make changes to this article, especially the border dispute section that can be taken as biased.

If you'd like to make a change, pls post your views here, with references and facts.

We have been through this a couple of times already. Please read talk history before making any changes.

Thank you.

अभय नातू 14:18, 26 ऑगस्ट 2006 (UTC)

Belgaon article is surprisingly Karnataka-baised

I have read ur comments and its extremely painful to see in spite of u being a Maharashtrian have glorified K'taka's stand in the article.I strongly oppose this.If not pro-Maharashtra plz make the article unbiased. References to craps like Deccan Herald is notorious and needs to be removed.Its my earnest request to include a pro-Marathi refernce or REMOVE that DH reference. (महाविकी 15:35, 26 ऑगस्ट 2006 (UTC))

This is not my content. Someone else wrote it.

I do not agree with many parts of it. However, as an administrator, I (and other admins as well) have to make sure that some semblance of a balanced viewpoint is maintained.

What you call 'crap' is a newspaper widely read in parts of India. I'm sure they have the same 'crap' comments about newspapers/sources that you hold dear.

Wikipedia is not a political arena or a place to express anyone's personal opinion/viewpoint. It is a collection of facts and references.

As for referencing DH article, if it's been printed/published, it can be referenced.

If you feel a certain part of the article is biased (either way), feel free to bring it up here(on the talk page) and the experts on this matter will weigh in. It is NOT my job to stifle your opinion. At the same time, I'd hate for wikipedia to become a place where unverified, unbalanced opinions are expressed in articles.

I hope I was clear.

अभय नातू 16:42, 26 ऑगस्ट 2006 (UTC)

Deccan Herad is just like a Kannad paper, with pro-Karnataka stand, and is only read in some part of Karnataka. --Gopal 20:32, 29 ऑगस्ट 2006 (UTC)

महाराष्ट्रातील शहरे

As of this moment, Belgaon is in Karnataka.

When it becomes part of Maharashtra, I will be very happy to include it in the महाराष्ट्रातील शहरे category.

Pls do not switch back.

Thank you.

अभय नातू 16:44, 26 ऑगस्ट 2006 (UTC)

sahamat

sahamat with अभय नातू.Article may need further references which explain Maharashtra Position ,One is welcome to give refferences to books or Speaches in Parliament etc. Speaches in Parliament are likely to be available online.One needs to do little search engine and a little research and put up the facts.

Mahitgar 00:17, 27 ऑगस्ट 2006 (UTC)

Karanataka Bias ?

Friends, First of all pleasetake note of wiki policies विकिपीडिआ:परिचय.Wikipedia is not an original writing what we write here is suposed to have a reference.Articles need to be all inclusive.

This article has been edited by Marathi People only so there is no question and reason being pro-karnataka for us.While we know very well Mahajan Committee report and Maharashtra view in person here for this article we neeed concrete reference of some sort.

When I contributed to the article I personaly struggled on google to search an entry giving official Govt of Maharashtra view I could not get a single one. I could get enough history related material online ,and I included that.

Secondly Kannad language article and smaller kannad-marathi vocabulory is contributed by me and corrected by the another promaharashtra user Gopal.

Purpose of linkig this kannad article here is a bilanguage dictionery can be generated.and such a dictionery would be useful for our marathi geeks who go to benglore for IT jobs . विजय 01:05, 27 ऑगस्ट 2006 (UTC)

बेळगांव bias

• marathi sahitya mandal shuddhlekhan standard rules do not have a provision of written anuswara in गांव to my knowledge.So also one is not supposed to write as 'कोंकणी'but कोकणी is correct for written marathi as per standard rules.While one speaks can speak as usual with anunasik pronounciation.

please check up Mahitgar 01:17, 27 ऑगस्ट 2006 (UTC)

This article was created by a person that seemed to be very familiar with Belgaon.

Another user, Gopal, contributed heavily into it. He too seemed to be from that area.

Vijay has contributed quite a bit to this article too.

All seem to be in agreement with the pronunciation!?!

If Belgaon is pronounced with the अनुस्वार in common practice, should we change it?

Not sure if the शुद्धलेखन standards apply to given names.

Same confusion seems to prevail for जळगाव, चाळीसगाव, etc.

अभय नातू 02:50, 27 ऑगस्ट 2006 (UTC)

I have seen Belgaon written with anuswar too. But the correct way seems to Belgaon without anuswar as suggested by Mahitgaar. Refer http://tarunbharat.com/ and www.pudhari.com --Gopal 20:23, 29 ऑगस्ट 2006 (UTC)

unfortunate stand

While Kannadi wikipedians are quite fierce about Belgaon even in English Wiki(forget about Kannada wiki,i bet they have added 'Sonnalige' in Karnataka!)we Marathi wikis are being more 'sahishNu'.Its pity that our brothers are being subject to so much of torture of K'taka govt but we are still busy being diplomats.

And about that kannada dictionary,there's absolutely no need of it.As if kannadis here learn Marathi when they come here.Plz stop all this. (महाविकी 06:01, 27 ऑगस्ट 2006 (UTC))

Pl add a pro-Maharashtra POV if u want to include a pro-Kannadi reference.

Re.Stands

Dear Friend ,

• Please be with us, basically Wikipedia is not a forum to promote a cause.Please take note that already I have added one pro-maharashtra POV link also.

• Still further you or some one else write an article on some other internet site,we can reffer and borrow thoughts from there.Wikipedia is a second refference site not first thought site.

• As far as words I have added were guided by a Kannadiga Civil Engineer named Ganesh who learned Marathi after comming to Mumbai by using a book which teaches Marathi.This Ganesh is currently working with a construction company called "B.H.Ladwa ".(This is just to share facts with you,not to prove myself as right.)
• Any language wikipedia is supposed to work on same principles.There are good no of Marathis specialy from North Karanataka and Belgoan who are good in Kannada and can take care of Maharashtra POV on Kannad Wikipedia.

Secondly even if one knows kannad but dont know how to write kannad use write kannad in devnagari font on Baraha and convert that to kannad font using baraha convert facility.

विजय 08:49, 27 ऑगस्ट 2006 (UTC)

conflict resolution

Dear Administrators 'Belgoan' article seems to have two views request is usual standard wiki procedures for this page for keep out of conflict zone .

my suggestions

• • All administrators add this page in पहारा
  • Changes be made after consensus.
  • let both sides contribute to mirror page,vote for it and make changes as per consensus part
  • same user avoid edit reverts more than once in 24 hours.

please note the following Mahitgar 09:24, 27 ऑगस्ट 2006 (UTC)

महत्त्वाचे विकी आधारस्तंभ

• विकिपीडिआ हा एक ज्ञानकोश आहे.
• विकिपीडिआतील लेख तटस्थ,वस्तुनिष्ठ,समतोल, सर्वसमावेशक दृष्टीकोनातून लिहीणे अपेक्षित असते.
• विकिपीडिआ मुक्‍त आहे.
• विकिपीडिआ वापरणार्‍यास फुकट आहे.
• विकिपीडिआ चे वापरकर्ते मतांबद्दल सहमत नसतात तेव्हासुद्धा एकमेकांचा व विरुद्ध मतांचा आदर करतात. एकमेकांबद्दल साधारण विधाने तसेच वैयक्तिक आरोप करण्याचे टाळतात. सभ्य आणि शांत रहातात. शक्य तेथे संपादना करिता योग्य संदर्भ उद्धृत करून देतात. विचार जुळले नाहीत तर संपादनास संघर्षाचे[१] स्वरुप न देता, दर २४ तासात एक पेक्षा अधिक वेळा आधीची आवृत्ती बदलण्याचे टाळतात[२] व चर्चा पान।चर्चा पानावर परस्पर चर्चा करतात. येथील संपादन व्यक्‍तिगत विश्वासार्हतेने होणे अपेक्षीत असते. त्यासाठीइतरांबद्दल विश्वास दाखवणेसुद्धा अपेक्षीत असते. आपला मुद्दा पटवण्या करिताविकिपीडियास संत्रस्त[३] करु नये व सभ्य पणे विकिपीडिआतील उपलब्ध मार्गांची योग्य माहिती व शोध करून घेउनच मार्ग काढणे व आपले वेगळे मत नोंदवणे अपेक्षीत असते. वृत्ती सतत सर्वांना साभाळुन नेणारी, मनमोकळी स्वागतेच्छु ठेवावी हि अपेक्षा असते.

Mahitgar 09:23, 27 ऑगस्ट 2006 (UTC)

कसायाला गाय साजरी!

Dear Marathi wikipedians, With due respect to all of u,I am rather astonished the way u r reacting.Where's a pro-Maharashtra link???Its 'Nagari POV' I dont expect a link to a forum.I hope u might be aware of sources which shall explain Maharashtra's JUSTIFIED stand.Why notinclude that?If not available Im sure ppl are wise enough to know how K'taka govt has tortured Maharashtrians till now.Latest incident being Belgaon mayor Vijay More's face blackening and ban on Marathi newspapers in Belgaon.Its incredible,i mean I have never heard such drastic steps any state has taken against other state!Did u know atleast two dozen ppl have lost their lives in this struggle?And still u convinently ignore the grief and plight of our fellow Maharashtrians and go on being diplomatic about it.

I know many Kannadigas here in Pune who have not given a damn to learn Marathi.Here's a Udupi restaurent in our suburb where 90% of staff is from Karnataka.He very proudly sits on galla reading some stupid Kannadi newspaper.I dnt think we should include any kannada dictionary in this article.

I dont care if u ban me or abuse me,but I wont allow this unjustice.I cant betray my state and my brothers.I WILL change everything which is defamatory to Marathi or Maharashtra(or pro-Kannadi) in any ways.

""Jai Maharashtra""

(महाविकी 13:59, 27 ऑगस्ट 2006 (UTC))

I like the way you have contributed to wikipedia. I hope you will continue to contribute.

It is unfortunate for that you can not take someone else's POV into consideration and are obstinate about what you think is right. Hopefully, a little later in life, you will understand the meaning of collaborative effort, which Wikipedia professes to be.

I do not think anyone has abused you here and I will not stand for anyone abusing you, just as I will not take abuse from you towards anyone.

I have nothing further to discuss with you regarding this.

You are welcome to ask for any help I can provide regarding wikipedia administration.

Regards,

अभय नातू 22:43, 27 ऑगस्ट 2006 (UTC)

Central govt. sides with Karnataka on border issue!

Kudos to u all!!! Great!!!!!!!!!!!!

Dissolve Maharashtra ,kill Marathi... This is really a 'collaborative' effort by Central governement,Maharashtra government and ignorants like u!!

im sure u all must be smiling bcoz of this decision....

I am feeling shameful for bringing up issue.I am feeling disgraced for being a Maharashtrian...and a Indian.Let us merge whole Maharashtra with Karnataka!

(महाविकी 03:55, 28 ऑगस्ट 2006 (UTC))

Sarvamat Paan

• Please write your contributions for consensus texts here:Mahitgar 07:36, 28 ऑगस्ट 2006 (UTC)

[४]

Controversy

I have contributed to this article heavily. Initially, I tried to represent picture what is commenly seen and felt in the area. But I could not provide evidence to each and every incident. Because of the opposition from some members, I changed the tone of the article.

Protests against Karnataka govt is quite common in Belgaum. We say ours is a democratic country, but no one is ready to hear the grievance of Marathi people in Belgaum. Getting elected seven MLA just for "one cause" is not a simple thing. Municipal corporation, taluka pachayat are also consistently dominated by the pro-maharashtra people. People never cared about the other factors of the candidates. They just elected the people who vow to fight against Karnataka Govt. But, now people are frustrated; they are losing hope. I can give you more incidents about how Karnataka govt. suppresses marathi and Marathi people, but can't provide evidences. At least not in English, because the main news papers that cover the stuggle in detail are marathi. It is not easy to search the past marathi news. Maharashtra has morally supported the struggle, but has not done enough. Many people in Maharashtra are not aware of the fighting, some are not even interested too. Tanjavar has already lost it's Marathi identity, next to follow are the cities like Indore, Bododa, Gwaliar. Belgaum people may not give up so easily, but they have limited power.

BTW, the articles is still labelled as controversial. What are the controversial factors in article? Does it give pro-marathi view, pro-kannadda view or what else? --Gopal 21:19, 29 ऑगस्ट 2006 (UTC)

Contents of the section marked controversial are not agreed to by many members. Also, the bullet points mentioned there seem like they would link to some references, but they do not. The headings by themselves convey some assertions that definitely need references.

Controversial does NOT mean wrong.

अभय नातू 21:25, 29 ऑगस्ट 2006 (UTC)

Abhay, As Gopal replied,we are not weirdos to unnecessarily cry foul about K'taka.This is MARATHI wikipedia so Maharashtra POV has to be highlighted here.Of course links to and mentions of Kannadi POV is fine.But inclusion of Kannad shabdasangrah is hillarious!I would still request u to highlight Maharashtra's POV here alongwith mentions of Kannadai POV.Urs insistance of references is like Baap dakhav nahitar shraddha ghal!

Plz dont be so insensitive to this issue. महाविकी 05:47, 30 ऑगस्ट 2006 (UTC)

Re:Controversy

महाविकी, I have never disparaged you in any way. In fact, most everyone here has been extra-patient when dealing with you. That is because we sympathize with your cause.

This is marathi WIKIPEDIA. Not a political discussion website. You have been barking up the wrong tree. On Wikipedia, we try to put verifiable, referenced facts. To that end, Gopal and Vijay have put material and context regarding this issue. No one has had a problem with it.

Please participate in healthy discussions about this issue on मनोगत or any other forum-type websites. I will back you up on the reasonable arguments that you put forth. I have nothing against Belgaon or it's marathi inhabitants. In fact, I do understand their position, having been in a similar environment for a sizeable chunk of my own life.

You have spent at least a few hours trying to argue with me and others that you are being wronged here. In fact, YOU are wasting everyone else's time if you insist on fighting about putting up material that can not be backed up by facts/references.

In fact, I have not seen much of a real contribution from you in this regard (your contribution in other areas is certainly noteworthy) except for this protracted argument that you have carried on.

Once again, I request you to write non-melodramatic, fact-based, verifiable statements. Please save the theatrics for some other audience.

Here, we deal in facts (at least, we try to.)

Regards,

अभय नातू 07:32, 30 ऑगस्ट 2006 (UTC)

It was quite a harsh and offensive response from u.i think I could write in a similar manner but I'm fully aware of the fact that its absolutely immaterial to fight fellow Maharashtrians,who like u may not be empathetic towards the issue.Our(or my) enemies are those who are anti-Mahashtra and anti-Marathi. U want reference and citation,well I try my best to do so.But lemme tell u that this issue is very serious and emotional and ur comments shall not desist my extreme feelings about this issue. Its said life's not fair,but I am worried as I am reminded of it in my each experience in my life!Its also said that truth will prevail and I sincerely hope it shall.

JAI MAHARASHTRA महाविकी 13:16, 30 ऑगस्ट 2006 (UTC)

Re:Controversy

My friend, it was not harsh at all. If you want to know harsh, read some of the responses I wrote to Gopal (and regretted it later.) I'd hate for us to get into a 'real' argument...heh

I do not doubt your passion. I do not hold a grudge against your cause. As I said, you are simply barking up the wrong tree. This is NOT the forum to 'fight' your war. Please take that battle somewhere else. I'm sure that you will find ample support on मनोगत, usenet, or a plethora of such websites, including my own support. I have said this earlier in plain language. I do not know what I have to say to convey this simple message. This is not the place to waste your passion and energy. Find the right forum and audience and let'er rip.

As for this effort, if you have anything to contribute to this article, please do so with references and in formal language. संध्यानंद or नवा काळ style headlines have no place on wikipedia. (Not that I have anything against these two newspapers.)

Thank you.

अभय नातू 15:26, 30 ऑगस्ट 2006 (UTC)

Of course Sandhyanand is not acceptable,why shouldnt Nava Kaal qualify if Wikipedia does accept crap like Deccan Herald!Then too,this question doesnt arise as Nava Kal is not available online. (महाविकी 19:10, 30 ऑगस्ट 2006 (UTC))

err. I said संध्यानंद or नवा काळ style headlines have no place on wikipedia. That means when you contribute, write facts. Do not editorialize. Point to sandhyanand or संध्यानंद or नवा काळ or any other rag. I stand by the 'if it has been published, it can be referenced.' policy.

To make it clearer and plain. Yes, wikipedia will gladly accept references from संध्यानंद or नवा काळ. What is unacceptable (at least, imho) is sensational headlines that a contributor him/herself wrote here and which assert things that can not be backed up by references or facts.

अभय नातू 19:16, 30 ऑगस्ट 2006 (UTC)

The bullet points are actually subsections. I have content for those subsections but have not included there because of three reasons. One, the article will become longer. Two, it takes time, and three, people might still consider it as controversial. Infact, details on subheading is available on www.pudhari.com . Gopal

Gopal,

You don't need to translate/copy the content. Simply linking the subsections to their appropriate place on Pudhari will do.

It will lend credibility to the content.

Regards,

अभय नातू 03:45, 7 सप्टेंबर 2006 (UTC)

Pudhari does not have seperate link for each article, so it is not possible to give link. Everything is available on the left side of www.pudhari.com under heading "Belgaon simaprashn". I suspect some people will still consider it has biased. Gopal

महाराष्ट्र-कर्नाटक सीमाप्रश्न वाद चर्चा

Please do share your POVs at Manogat also महाराष्ट्र-कर्नाटक सीमाप्रश्न वाद चर्चा विजय 06:48, 30 ऑगस्ट 2006 (UTC)

I think मनोगत is an excellent forum for airing your views on this topic.

Also, I'd encourage महाविकि to write his own thoughts on this or find articles/material that helps the cause of Marathi people in Belgaon. He seems to have the passion.

I strongly believe that the folks on मनोगत will have much more to add to that cause.

Wikipedia is the wrong forum to be asking for reparations for Belgaon's marathi people. One more time, Wikipedia is NOT a place for political views, news or clues.

अभय नातू 07:09, 30 ऑगस्ट 2006 (UTC)

I have not got the exact post u wanted to refer.But hope atleast u arent pro-Kannadi and indifferent to this problem. Jai Maharashtra. BTW I cant seee my post in that forum,but u seem to read it,where is that post??? महाविकी 05:28, 31 ऑगस्ट 2006 (UTC)

I think मनोगत admins deleted it after another user complained about the language used in that post.

Anyway, as you said, let's close this discussion and focus on more important tasks at hand.

Thanks,

अभय नातू 09:59, 31 ऑगस्ट 2006 (UTC)

Manogat discussion

is at this node http://www.manogat.com/node/7372 and will remain their .a writer तरुणरसिक there has offerd their to make available a book by Mr.A.R.Antuley If Mahawiki can contact him then from the book we would be able to reffer factual figures etc. विजय 10:36, 31 ऑगस्ट 2006 (UTC)

a balanced news item

Even though one needs to register for this news site this news seems comparatively better information ,and self speaking *Bordering on nothingness

• Can State supersede Belgaum TP?
• Build lasting bond between K’nataka, M’rashtra: Poet

Mahitgar 14:21, 5 सप्टेंबर 2006 (UTC)

समसमीक्षा

चित्रे पाहिजेत

हा लेख एप्रिल, २००७चे मुखपृष्ठ सदर करण्याचा प्रस्ताव आहे. लेख थोडा आकर्षक करण्यासाठी त्यात काही चित्रे घालण्याची आवश्यकता आहे. बेळगांवातील दैनंदिन दृष्ये, प्रेक्षणीय स्थळे, इ.ची चित्रे कोणाकडे असतील तर ती येथे द्यावी.

अभय नातू १९:३२, ३ मार्च २००७ (UTC)

Good Article

Please some one check it for shuddhalekhana, I also agree with Abhaya's suggestion.

प्रचलीत मराठी शुद्धलेखन नियमानुसार कदाचित बेळगांव या नावातील अनुस्वार लिहीण्याबद्दल शंका व्यक्त केली जाऊ शकते.

else,this article amounts to be one of the best city related article on Marathi Wikipedia as of today.

Compliments to all who worked on this बेळगाव/बेळगांव(Belgaum/Belgoan) article.

विजय १२:०९, ४ मार्च २००७ (UTC)

रट्टा कि रट्ट

लेखात लिहिले आहे - सौंदती येथील रट्टा राज्यकर्त्यांनी बेळगांव शहराची...

या राज्यकर्त्यांचे नाव रट्टा असेच होते की हा शब्द रट्टच्या इंग्लिश उच्चार/शुद्धलेखानावरुन अपभ्रंशित आहे?

अभय नातू १६:३८, १२ मार्च २००७ (UTC)

रट्टा राज्यकर्ते असे कुठेतरी वाचल्याचे आठवत आहे.कोणाला या बाबत माहित आहे का? →→महाराष्ट्र एक्सप्रेस(च/यो)→→ ०४:३३, १३ मार्च २००७ (UTC)